1 00:00:08,570 --> 00:00:17,180 [Music] 2 00:00:25,470 --> 00:00:20,670 welcome to shattered reality with your 3 00:00:28,530 --> 00:00:25,480 hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to 4 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:28,540 have your paradigms shifted into truths 5 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:49,290 we've got quite a quite a zoo here today 6 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:53,050 we've got Sasquatch and Kate and Kate's 7 00:01:00,420 --> 00:00:57,730 dog Cape and ferocious shout of reality 8 00:01:02,490 --> 00:01:00,430 you want a slate for us Kate yeah I 9 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:02,500 would say today is just another great 10 00:01:04,979 --> 00:01:04,329 beautiful day here in northern New 11 00:01:08,690 --> 00:01:04,989 Jersey 12 00:01:11,580 --> 00:01:08,700 absolutely gorgeous month of may 8th 13 00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:11,590 2018 and we are with you again which 14 00:01:18,690 --> 00:01:14,560 episode is this now my god so it's must 15 00:01:22,289 --> 00:01:18,700 be like it's 60 68 I believe it's this 16 00:01:26,850 --> 00:01:22,299 is I believe it's the 68th show of our 17 00:01:30,390 --> 00:01:26,860 wonderful shattered reality podcast with 18 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:30,400 Tate Valentine and faroush ax we're here 19 00:01:36,690 --> 00:01:33,970 today on a beautiful spring day which is 20 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:36,700 spring the way it should be it's only 21 00:01:42,030 --> 00:01:39,610 just warm it's not red-hot and it's not 22 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:42,040 snowing so we're in great luck today 23 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:44,890 we're also in great luck to have a 24 00:01:53,179 --> 00:01:48,250 gentleman with us who is a wonderful 25 00:01:55,469 --> 00:01:53,189 author he has written a number of books 26 00:01:59,760 --> 00:01:55,479 one of which were going to speak about 27 00:02:03,539 --> 00:01:59,770 today but he's the author of Oh at least 28 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:03,549 five other books maybe more that a lot 29 00:02:10,259 --> 00:02:07,329 of them are about Texas and what the 30 00:02:12,949 --> 00:02:10,269 history of Texas but today we will 31 00:02:18,809 --> 00:02:12,959 include some of the history of Texas 32 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:18,819 when we talk about monster hike a 100 33 00:02:24,059 --> 00:02:20,170 mile inquiry 34 00:02:27,449 --> 00:02:24,069 into the Sasquatch mystery with Avril 35 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:27,459 Averell seal now April are you there I 36 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:33,610 am April is a fabulous author as I said 37 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:38,650 and he is he has a very strange title as 38 00:02:42,870 --> 00:02:40,330 far as I know I haven't heard anybody 39 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:42,880 with this title before he works at the 40 00:02:50,250 --> 00:02:46,209 University of Texas as a messaging 41 00:02:53,330 --> 00:02:50,260 architect which in other words is is a 42 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:53,340 writer right April that's correct okay 43 00:03:00,920 --> 00:02:57,070 and it's a it's a common title in 44 00:03:03,390 --> 00:03:00,930 marketing circles in I'm part of the 45 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:03,400 university's communication office but 46 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:06,250 specifically the marketing arm of that 47 00:03:11,370 --> 00:03:08,890 and so that was the title that was 48 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:11,380 offered to me ah about a year ago or so 49 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:15,010 do you mind if I get in touch with you 50 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:17,230 at another time so you could give me one 51 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:19,780 of these wonderful titles that I can add 52 00:03:28,319 --> 00:03:22,890 to my business card you know no problem 53 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:28,329 intuitive consultant and rocontour 54 00:03:35,220 --> 00:03:32,070 I don't know but you can figure one out 55 00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:35,230 that's basically I'm the kind of an 56 00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:38,620 all-purpose writer an editor there for 57 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:43,200 university-wide communications so the 58 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:46,780 let me just sort of bring the audience 59 00:03:52,949 --> 00:03:50,410 into the story here that you have 60 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:52,959 written you were going to be fifty years 61 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:56,110 old this happened sometime in the fall 62 00:03:59,819 --> 00:03:57,850 it was reasonably recently you were 63 00:04:01,740 --> 00:03:59,829 going to be fifty and you did turn fifty 64 00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:01,750 in fact and we're and we're happy you 65 00:04:10,460 --> 00:04:05,950 did but the whole idea about turning 50 66 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:10,470 was you wanted to do something like 67 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:13,030 groundbreaking something you'd remember 68 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:15,310 your birthday and you didn't want to 69 00:04:22,380 --> 00:04:18,090 jump out of a parachute jump out like 70 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:22,390 George HW Bush when he was 90 jump out 71 00:04:27,630 --> 00:04:24,490 of an airplane you decided that would be 72 00:04:29,150 --> 00:04:27,640 a bad idea and it would be over too 73 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:29,160 quickly if I'm recalling correctly 74 00:04:33,870 --> 00:04:32,410 that's right and so why don't you tell 75 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:33,880 us what you decided to 76 00:04:40,710 --> 00:04:37,090 do well as you say it was kind of 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:40,720 leading up to my my 50th birthday and I 78 00:04:50,460 --> 00:04:46,770 the one thing that I can do is is walk 79 00:04:52,020 --> 00:04:50,470 and I'm not a great athlete in any other 80 00:04:54,030 --> 00:04:52,030 kind of way I've tried 81 00:04:56,970 --> 00:04:54,040 you know I've jogged a little bit I've 82 00:05:00,750 --> 00:04:56,980 done a couple of short triathlons but 83 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:00,760 I'm an outdoorsman and a scouting dad 84 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:05,170 and loved to be outside and so decided 85 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:08,770 to do this hike and you know there are a 86 00:05:14,370 --> 00:05:13,090 couple of kind of Markey hikes in North 87 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:14,380 America one of them is the Appalachian 88 00:05:19,980 --> 00:05:17,110 Trail of course and the other one is the 89 00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:19,990 Pacific Crest Trail but those are you 90 00:05:26,130 --> 00:05:22,960 know each and excess of over you know 91 00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:26,140 2,000 miles or so and I didn't have you 92 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:28,720 know six months to knock off of work and 93 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:30,250 do this I 94 00:05:35,580 --> 00:05:33,910 week basically a vacation time and but I 95 00:05:37,230 --> 00:05:35,590 wanted to do all of something I wanted 96 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:37,240 to be able to say it that I could do all 97 00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:40,000 of something and so I set out to hike 98 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:42,160 what's called the lone Starr trail and 99 00:05:47,850 --> 00:05:44,170 it's in East Texas it's about an hour 100 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:47,860 north of Houston and it stretches all 101 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:49,930 the way across Sam Houston National 102 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:52,690 Forest we've got four national forests 103 00:05:57,540 --> 00:05:54,850 and Texas and and that's the 104 00:06:00,990 --> 00:05:57,550 southernmost one and so and so that's 105 00:06:04,020 --> 00:06:01,000 what I decided to do cool well that's 106 00:06:06,620 --> 00:06:04,030 that sounds like an interesting idea and 107 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:06,630 one of the reasons oh dear we thought 108 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:14,170 whose dogs are those not yours well go 109 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:18,450 off the hounds okay call off the hounds 110 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:23,440 so what I usually don't think of Texas 111 00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:26,650 is being forested and East Texas 112 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:29,260 especially is north of Houston there's a 113 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:30,580 lot of forests there 114 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:32,650 I'm very good I'm sorry I'm from New 115 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:34,660 Jersey no I know once you get past the 116 00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:37,570 Mississippi forget yeah it's all the 117 00:06:47,070 --> 00:06:44,800 same right now Texas is as as has about 118 00:06:47,910 --> 00:06:47,080 it's five different very distinct 119 00:06:50,580 --> 00:06:47,920 ecosystem 120 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:50,590 and it in a Hollywood version of Texas 121 00:06:55,830 --> 00:06:53,680 is really West Texas and that's the you 122 00:06:58,860 --> 00:06:55,840 know tumbleweed and the you know Canyon 123 00:07:01,200 --> 00:06:58,870 occasional canyons and their mountains 124 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:01,210 out there and so forth but but you know 125 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:03,010 East Texas is not very different from 126 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:05,950 Louisiana of course okay cuz they're 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:09,130 they share a border and so Arkansas 128 00:07:16,140 --> 00:07:12,490 eastern Oklahoma East Texas all kind of 129 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:16,150 the same the same biome they're in which 130 00:07:23,490 --> 00:07:20,770 is relatively flat lots of rainfall in 131 00:07:25,460 --> 00:07:23,500 excess of you know probably fifty inches 132 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:25,470 of year inches a year of rainfall so 133 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:29,050 that's that's why there that's why we're 134 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:32,350 talking about this because it's got the 135 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:43,120 right biological prerequisites for yeah 136 00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:46,450 so that was what what you had been out a 137 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:50,260 couple of times with your three sons on 138 00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:53,170 a day hike and a one your older son on 139 00:07:59,030 --> 00:07:55,990 an overnight hike in this Sam Houston 140 00:08:04,980 --> 00:07:59,040 National Forest and you feel as though 141 00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:04,990 you found that there may have been signs 142 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:08,710 of Sasquatch signs of Bigfoot now I have 143 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:10,930 to at this point I have to ask you a 144 00:08:23,790 --> 00:08:18,720 why are big foots called Bigfoot's and 145 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:23,800 not big feet that is the $64,000 146 00:08:31,890 --> 00:08:28,050 question actually actually address that 147 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:31,900 it's because big feet doesn't either one 148 00:08:38,250 --> 00:08:33,490 of them sound right early that's why I 149 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:38,260 kind of opted for sasquatches the 150 00:08:49,350 --> 00:08:40,450 dramatic ending and making in the end 151 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:49,360 Bigfoot I'm sorry I I don't want to like 152 00:08:57,190 --> 00:08:53,770 a verb doesn't it the gerund it does but 153 00:09:01,580 --> 00:08:57,200 I want I take this the 154 00:09:04,010 --> 00:09:01,590 Bigfoot idea quite seriously now I am 155 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:04,020 NOT a believer nor am i a disbeliever I 156 00:09:12,590 --> 00:09:08,840 have not experienced and a meeting with 157 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:12,600 sasquatch myself but I happen to know 158 00:09:17,210 --> 00:09:15,510 somebody who is a somewhat of a 159 00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:17,220 world-famous mind 160 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:21,420 believe it or not who is about your age 161 00:09:30,650 --> 00:09:25,850 Averell and who experienced a one-on-one 162 00:09:33,950 --> 00:09:30,660 firsthand Bigfoot sighting in white 163 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:33,960 metal Lake New Jersey I would say about 164 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:43,470 35 years ago so you did you have any 165 00:09:52,010 --> 00:09:45,810 prior interest before you took this 166 00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:52,020 midlife crisis type hikes I did and I I 167 00:10:00,740 --> 00:09:57,690 grew up in the 70s and you know it was 168 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:00,750 part of popular culture back in I was 169 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:03,330 well aware of the phenomenon the Six 170 00:10:11,420 --> 00:10:06,570 Million Dollar Man the Patterson Gimlin 171 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:11,430 film yeah was shot in October of 1967 172 00:10:17,540 --> 00:10:13,650 which incidentally was the era that I 173 00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:17,550 was born okay so I was I was well aware 174 00:10:23,450 --> 00:10:20,760 of it and it always had kind of a steady 175 00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:23,460 interest in it and it had been growing I 176 00:10:30,770 --> 00:10:25,950 would say over the ten years or so 177 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:30,780 before I took this hike so I was online 178 00:10:39,740 --> 00:10:35,930 I was aware of the the spread of them 179 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:39,750 the the distribution of them so you so 180 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:41,250 you saw the Patterson Gimlin film 181 00:10:49,970 --> 00:10:44,910 everybody I think that's interested in 182 00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:49,980 the paranormal who is over 35 years old 183 00:10:57,740 --> 00:10:54,240 has probably seen that film of was very 184 00:11:00,830 --> 00:10:57,750 important groundbreaking film of the 185 00:11:03,650 --> 00:11:00,840 Sasquatch and some people say it was a 186 00:11:05,690 --> 00:11:03,660 hoax other people's such as yourself 187 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:05,700 found it to be very real would you like 188 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:08,130 to explain why you you thought it was 189 00:11:13,850 --> 00:11:10,680 real visa vie the joints on 190 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:13,860 the on the creature well sure there are 191 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:17,730 a lot of people several people I should 192 00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:19,740 say have come forward and claimed that 193 00:11:26,510 --> 00:11:24,540 it was them and a suit but when it the 194 00:11:29,420 --> 00:11:26,520 longer that film was around and the 195 00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:29,430 closer it studied the more realistic 196 00:11:35,510 --> 00:11:33,270 it's found to be and the more the harder 197 00:11:41,019 --> 00:11:35,520 it is to believe that this is something 198 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,029 that was concocted the for one thing the 199 00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:44,160 photogrammetry has shown that the 200 00:11:49,490 --> 00:11:46,980 creature was seven foot three I believe 201 00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:49,500 I may be off an inch there but no 202 00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:53,160 National Geographic had an episode occu 203 00:11:58,519 --> 00:11:56,640 mentary that they in which they got to 204 00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:58,529 the site they looked at landmark trees 205 00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:02,160 at the site replicated the lens that was 206 00:12:08,180 --> 00:12:05,820 used and and they concluded that the 207 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:08,190 figure was over seven feet tall Wow and 208 00:12:15,530 --> 00:12:10,770 it also left a trackway a fourteen and a 209 00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:15,540 half inch prints and so also there's as 210 00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:18,270 you mentioned there the arms and legs 211 00:12:27,940 --> 00:12:22,380 are are jointed for breaking in points 212 00:12:32,329 --> 00:12:27,950 that are unlikely or almost unreplicated 213 00:12:33,769 --> 00:12:32,339 being and so while so while it at first 214 00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,779 it seems like oh this is a creature 215 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:35,279 walking on two legs and swinging its 216 00:12:39,710 --> 00:12:38,100 arms obviously it's a human assuit when 217 00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:39,720 you look closer and you really you know 218 00:12:45,890 --> 00:12:43,310 do the the math and the geometry on it 219 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:45,900 there's something odd about it and 220 00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:49,050 what's odd is that the creatures back 221 00:12:56,180 --> 00:12:54,089 step is very pronounced and its arms are 222 00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:56,190 longer as a percentage of its total 223 00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,040 height than human arms and of course 224 00:13:04,190 --> 00:13:01,680 there have been a lot of fakes fake 225 00:13:06,260 --> 00:13:04,200 Bigfoot videos over the years but that's 226 00:13:09,139 --> 00:13:06,270 that's the fastest way to tell a fake 227 00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:09,149 from one that's plausible or one that's 228 00:13:15,790 --> 00:13:12,959 probable probably authentic is that this 229 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:15,800 business of the arm length the arm ratio 230 00:13:21,510 --> 00:13:19,529 because it's just hard to to fake that 231 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:21,520 even in a costume and 232 00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:24,690 and the ones that are considered to be 233 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:29,200 real are walking through the forest in 234 00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:33,250 the manner of an indigenous American or 235 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:38,950 a person that even in Europe or on the 236 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:43,570 steppes of Eurasia would be stepping 237 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:47,290 toes toes and ball of the foot first and 238 00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:49,930 followed by heel rather than walking 239 00:13:54,390 --> 00:13:52,240 like a city person who strikes their 240 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:54,400 heel on the ground first is that correct 241 00:13:58,530 --> 00:13:56,650 well that's right you know that's it's 242 00:14:00,600 --> 00:13:58,540 called a in there are a couple of 243 00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:00,610 different characteristics to the gate 244 00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:04,240 but it's called a compliant gait and I 245 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:05,710 don't go too much into this in the book 246 00:14:12,630 --> 00:14:08,770 but the trackways Sasquatch trackways 247 00:14:14,190 --> 00:14:12,640 are in-line trackways in other words 248 00:14:17,070 --> 00:14:14,200 what if you are I were to walk in the 249 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:17,080 snow you would see a left foot and a 250 00:14:23,010 --> 00:14:21,010 right foot zigzagging back and forth and 251 00:14:25,530 --> 00:14:23,020 a sasquatch 252 00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:25,540 typically it's like they're walking on a 253 00:14:31,950 --> 00:14:29,740 tightrope they're the feet are left and 254 00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:31,960 right obviously but they are in line 255 00:14:36,510 --> 00:14:34,390 with each other and when you think about 256 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:36,520 it that makes a lot of sense for a 257 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:40,090 bipedal animal that's extremely heavy in 258 00:14:45,390 --> 00:14:43,270 which the the legs need to be more 259 00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:45,400 centered under the under the center of 260 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:48,340 gravity or the center of mass than they 261 00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:51,850 are at a human being because we're so 262 00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:54,280 much more light boned and small we can 263 00:14:59,400 --> 00:14:57,460 afford this sort of left and right a zig 264 00:15:01,080 --> 00:14:59,410 zagging pattern but in their case it's 265 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:01,090 very much in line because they have to 266 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:03,730 support this huge amount of weight and 267 00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:05,740 and how much would you speculate that 268 00:15:11,460 --> 00:15:08,260 they would weigh and like an adult male 269 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:11,470 let's say I'm lying I think adult the 270 00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:14,560 males are probably I mean this is this 271 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:17,830 is this is a lot of speculation and I 272 00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:20,080 want to be you know modest about how 273 00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:23,260 much we're able to know but people that 274 00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:26,800 study this harder than I do would not 275 00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:31,720 rule out 900 pounds as 10 of a ballpark 276 00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:35,320 you know the females 277 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:38,390 seemed to be between seven and eight 278 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:42,110 feet tall and and of about 500 pounds 279 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:45,170 probably that's the estimate for for 280 00:15:48,730 --> 00:15:46,610 patty the subject of the 281 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:48,740 patterson-gimlin film who was a female 282 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:52,010 by the way breasts have anything to do 283 00:16:01,660 --> 00:15:54,250 with it anyway yeah that's right 284 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:01,670 breasts and booty but so typically I 285 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:03,530 mean from the sighting reports of which 286 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:06,170 there have been about 10,000 across 287 00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:09,170 North America over the last century or 288 00:16:16,510 --> 00:16:13,310 so as females consistently are reported 289 00:16:19,570 --> 00:16:16,520 to be 7 to 8 feet tall males 8 to 10 290 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:19,580 feet tall so just as a point of 291 00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:20,930 reference for people that might have 292 00:16:27,010 --> 00:16:23,780 lost sight of this most ceilings in an 293 00:16:31,020 --> 00:16:27,020 American home or 8 feet tall so that 294 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:31,030 would be about the minimum of a male 295 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:34,420 Sasquatch and so it's quite a terrifying 296 00:16:41,770 --> 00:16:37,930 idea to run into and Sam Houston 297 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:41,780 National Forest that's right and of 298 00:16:46,570 --> 00:16:44,570 course kind of the I will say you know I 299 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:46,580 will not string people along I have not 300 00:16:52,980 --> 00:16:49,850 seen as a Bigfoot either you know you 301 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:52,990 haven't and I have it either but I have 302 00:16:58,390 --> 00:16:56,090 an awful lot of evidence I think 303 00:17:00,460 --> 00:16:58,400 including a photographs of footprints 304 00:17:02,950 --> 00:17:00,470 the best one of which is on the cover of 305 00:17:08,350 --> 00:17:02,960 the book so I'm laying all my cards on 306 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:08,360 the table okay and in that footprint for 307 00:17:15,730 --> 00:17:11,089 people that haven't seen it is 18 inches 308 00:17:18,190 --> 00:17:15,740 long and 9 inches wide so it's my foot 309 00:17:21,610 --> 00:17:18,200 is a board of size 10 and a half men's 310 00:17:23,290 --> 00:17:21,620 shoe pretty standard right that's about 311 00:17:25,150 --> 00:17:23,300 average for a guy something like that 312 00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:25,160 yeah maybe a little bit on the short 313 00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:28,790 side but but I'm six-two sore so it's a 314 00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:33,200 it's a pretty average sized foot and it 315 00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:35,840 looks like a toddler's shoe compared to 316 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:38,990 see I'm looking at the cover at the book 317 00:17:43,330 --> 00:17:41,330 right now and I see it and and you 318 00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:43,340 mentioned these triangles quite a bit 319 00:17:48,169 --> 00:17:46,400 during the book that you saw numbers of 320 00:17:55,460 --> 00:17:48,179 them during your 321 00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:55,470 like and so you spent four nights and 322 00:18:02,119 --> 00:17:59,039 three nights and weary with your brother 323 00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:02,129 during the hike could you explain 324 00:18:07,460 --> 00:18:04,470 explain how you what you did out there 325 00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:07,470 exactly sure sure well the total hike 326 00:18:13,820 --> 00:18:10,590 was eight days and so the book is 327 00:18:15,649 --> 00:18:13,830 divided up into into those parts or kind 328 00:18:17,330 --> 00:18:15,659 of there's there's a good bit of the 329 00:18:19,159 --> 00:18:17,340 book that's just preparation for the 330 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:19,169 hike and kind of setting up you know 331 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:20,610 what is a sasquatch why do I believe 332 00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:22,710 they're real where you know why do I 333 00:18:27,230 --> 00:18:24,360 believe that they're all over the United 334 00:18:29,989 --> 00:18:27,240 States and not just in California and 335 00:18:32,539 --> 00:18:29,999 Oregon and Washington and so forth so 336 00:18:34,159 --> 00:18:32,549 but about two thirds a third of the way 337 00:18:36,859 --> 00:18:34,169 through the book we do get to the hike 338 00:18:41,539 --> 00:18:36,869 itself and that was eight days I spent 339 00:18:45,049 --> 00:18:41,549 three nights camping which is I had 340 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:45,059 intended to spend all seven nights and 341 00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:48,480 eight days camping but I had an 342 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:52,440 experience on the first night that was 343 00:18:59,060 --> 00:18:56,610 quite disturbing and caused me to want 344 00:19:01,399 --> 00:18:59,070 to come off the trail on night three and 345 00:19:05,749 --> 00:19:01,409 so I spent nights three four five and 346 00:19:08,269 --> 00:19:05,759 six in a nearby town of Montgomery which 347 00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:08,279 is kind of a bedroom community in the 348 00:19:13,310 --> 00:19:10,470 northern Houston a greater northern 349 00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:13,320 Houston area and with my brother who had 350 00:19:20,389 --> 00:19:16,049 come over from San Antonio and had 351 00:19:24,289 --> 00:19:20,399 rented a house or was rented a room at 352 00:19:28,009 --> 00:19:24,299 an Airbnb house and so he was he was 353 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:28,019 kind enough to take me for those nights 354 00:19:34,659 --> 00:19:30,450 because I basically didn't didn't 355 00:19:39,489 --> 00:19:34,669 believe that I could handle seven nights 356 00:19:42,529 --> 00:19:39,499 yeah well you did a quite a long hike I 357 00:19:45,619 --> 00:19:42,539 remember you had mentioned forty-four 358 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:45,629 thousand steps a day now I wear this 359 00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:49,049 little device on my wrist and I'm trying 360 00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,080 to get 10,000 steps a day and for me to 361 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:54,960 get more than 15,000 steps a day is 362 00:20:02,600 --> 00:19:56,490 quite unusual 363 00:20:04,399 --> 00:20:02,610 so 44,000 steps I take my hat off to you 364 00:20:06,919 --> 00:20:04,409 speaking of which what the heck is a 365 00:20:09,620 --> 00:20:06,929 toque you mention it's this thing about 366 00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:09,630 having a toque is it is it a watchman's 367 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:12,630 cap is it what we call here if we were 368 00:20:18,289 --> 00:20:15,120 in Brooklyn Akoo Bellini what is a toque 369 00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:18,299 well it's it's you know it's funny did 370 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:21,240 you highlight that because I realized 371 00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:23,010 after I had gone to press I finally 372 00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:26,640 found the word in print and I had been I 373 00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:29,100 had misspelled it in the book but it's 374 00:20:38,029 --> 00:20:33,470 the wrote the real spelling is tu q ue o 375 00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:38,039 tok like like ash ash tok it's a it's a 376 00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:39,750 knitted hat it's just a knitted 377 00:20:44,269 --> 00:20:42,120 cold-weather hat okay it's it's like 378 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:44,279 watchman's hat okay like yeah like you 379 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:46,770 would wear a skiing or something like 380 00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:49,730 that or you know some of them have the 381 00:20:57,279 --> 00:20:54,270 yarn balls on top of them and so that's 382 00:20:59,269 --> 00:20:57,289 what we call it to you Karina and I 383 00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:59,279 don't know where I picked that up I 384 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:00,960 guess I picked it up from the great 385 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:04,610 white north which is that SCTV bit Oh 386 00:21:12,049 --> 00:21:06,690 back in the day because they were always 387 00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:12,059 wearing Bob and Doug talking about their 388 00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:16,049 Tukes when they weren't talking about 389 00:21:26,539 --> 00:21:23,880 their beer but I found your your book 390 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:26,549 was a pleasure to read because it was 391 00:21:33,529 --> 00:21:29,970 well written and it was well written in 392 00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:33,539 a way that there were basically it 393 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:36,630 flowed and you you brought in a lot of 394 00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:39,690 local color you brought in a lot about 395 00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:42,720 your family history in that area of 396 00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:46,799 Texas and even began to talk about some 397 00:21:52,370 --> 00:21:49,830 of the other wildlife and give some very 398 00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:52,380 interesting information from for 399 00:21:58,460 --> 00:21:55,080 instance about the pygmy shrew I believe 400 00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,470 that you found dead on on the walkway 401 00:22:04,690 --> 00:22:00,960 and and quite frankly a lot of these 402 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:04,700 details were interesting well thank you 403 00:22:10,399 --> 00:22:08,490 it made it it was you know I do read a 404 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:10,409 bunch of different books for shadowed 405 00:22:14,860 --> 00:22:12,530 reality podcast 406 00:22:18,370 --> 00:22:14,870 some of them are highly technical with a 407 00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:18,380 lot of pvalue x' and graphs and stuff 408 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:19,760 like that which I find very interesting 409 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:22,970 but it's it's makes reading a little bit 410 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:24,290 you know you have to go back and read 411 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:26,510 again because I'm not a scientist and 412 00:22:32,860 --> 00:22:28,850 others some of the UFO books 413 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:32,870 unfortunately are grammatically in very 414 00:22:38,170 --> 00:22:35,450 bad shape I'm not the greatest writer in 415 00:22:41,380 --> 00:22:38,180 the world but some people really need an 416 00:22:43,690 --> 00:22:41,390 editor but you were excellent and that 417 00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:43,700 is because you are a professional writer 418 00:22:49,210 --> 00:22:47,510 that is your that is your trade and so 419 00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:49,220 it was a pleasure to read the book I 420 00:22:57,580 --> 00:22:54,950 guess what we'll talk about is maybe you 421 00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,590 want to like give us the high couple of 422 00:23:03,310 --> 00:22:59,360 high points where you felt like there 423 00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:03,320 was some contact with the Bigfoot sure 424 00:23:07,660 --> 00:23:05,780 well we can talk about night well let me 425 00:23:10,060 --> 00:23:07,670 believe back up just a little bit Sharon 426 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:10,070 - one year earlier which is one of those 427 00:23:18,610 --> 00:23:12,770 trips that you mentioned this was 428 00:23:20,550 --> 00:23:18,620 January 4th of 2016 and it was actually 429 00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:20,560 so it was actually not quite a year 430 00:23:29,170 --> 00:23:24,830 before before the hike and a friend of 431 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:29,180 mine and I have this tradition of of 432 00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:33,170 going somewhere and camping on on or 433 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:36,320 around New Year's that that break you 434 00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:38,290 know that traditionally between 435 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:40,790 Christmas and New Year's and we went out 436 00:23:46,930 --> 00:23:43,370 about two and a half miles down the Lone 437 00:23:50,170 --> 00:23:46,940 Star trail from the from the western 438 00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:50,180 terminus of it near the town of Richards 439 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:53,510 and it was a it was a cold obviously 440 00:23:58,450 --> 00:23:56,510 cold because it was January but a very 441 00:24:02,670 --> 00:23:58,460 still winter morning he and I were both 442 00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:02,680 hammock camping and we were we had 443 00:24:09,370 --> 00:24:05,750 chosen a little pond a little scenic 444 00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:09,380 little pond right near the trail set up 445 00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:12,230 camp there gone to sleep and then at 446 00:24:17,890 --> 00:24:15,980 6:00 in the morning I was awake I think 447 00:24:19,540 --> 00:24:17,900 I probably needed to go the restroom but 448 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:19,550 I wasn't I wasn't getting out of my 449 00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:22,730 sleeping bag just yet and and I heard 450 00:24:28,090 --> 00:24:25,340 this loud crack 451 00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:28,100 on the other side of him so in the 452 00:24:35,230 --> 00:24:33,440 forest about say 50 yards or so on the 453 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:35,240 other side of him he didn't hear it at 454 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:37,250 all because he was down inside of his 455 00:24:46,540 --> 00:24:40,570 sleeping bag with this with his two Khan 456 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:46,550 and and and so I heard this and then 457 00:24:53,490 --> 00:24:49,910 about a half a second he lapses in about 458 00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:53,500 a quarter of a mile away I hear this I 459 00:24:58,750 --> 00:24:56,960 hear this double knock AHA and and this 460 00:25:00,430 --> 00:24:58,760 is one of those things where if you 461 00:25:02,290 --> 00:25:00,440 didn't know which you were hearing you 462 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:02,300 could you could ride it off to all kinds 463 00:25:07,270 --> 00:25:04,730 of things you could say well it was it 464 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:07,280 was called and it was just branches 465 00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:09,050 breaking because branches break all the 466 00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:12,920 time in the in the forest but I had 467 00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:15,230 studied this phenomenon enough to know 468 00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:17,980 that what I was hearing was 469 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:20,480 communication between between to 470 00:25:25,420 --> 00:25:23,690 squatches to sasquatches and I believe 471 00:25:28,540 --> 00:25:25,430 that that the first one that cracked 472 00:25:31,450 --> 00:25:28,550 that close crack that I heard was was 473 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:31,460 one discovering us because we were 474 00:25:35,740 --> 00:25:33,890 blocking it from the pond and you know 475 00:25:40,150 --> 00:25:35,750 like like all nocturnal creatures that 476 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:40,160 they they why they go to water at the 477 00:25:44,110 --> 00:25:41,510 beginning of their shift and at the end 478 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:44,120 of their shift you they're working the 479 00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:44,720 night shift 480 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:47,600 aha and so they and so like coyotes or 481 00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:49,790 deer or anything else that's active 482 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:53,900 overnight they get a big drink when they 483 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:55,370 get started and then they drink before 484 00:25:59,230 --> 00:25:57,290 they go to bed when the Sun comes up and 485 00:26:03,130 --> 00:25:59,240 I think that they were coming in to 486 00:26:06,220 --> 00:26:03,140 water and and so it was to me it was a 487 00:26:09,130 --> 00:26:06,230 very clear communication it was hey 488 00:26:11,710 --> 00:26:09,140 heads up humans over here and then 489 00:26:13,660 --> 00:26:11,720 another one farther away like I say 490 00:26:16,450 --> 00:26:13,670 about a quarter of a mile away saying 491 00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:16,460 gotcha or Roger that or something like 492 00:26:22,060 --> 00:26:19,220 that interest and so I was really struck 493 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:22,070 by and I had heard I'd also been out 494 00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:25,370 there with my son on an earlier trip and 495 00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:28,520 heard what I believe to be a howl this 496 00:26:32,740 --> 00:26:31,100 is another phenomenon that that people 497 00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:32,750 report all the time in conjunction with 498 00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:35,360 Sasquatch sightings are these howls and 499 00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,320 again this was about it's sundown so it 500 00:26:45,389 --> 00:26:40,240 and you know kind of at the beginning of 501 00:26:48,180 --> 00:26:45,399 the shift that one and so in four in 502 00:26:50,999 --> 00:26:48,190 four trips out there twice I had heard 503 00:26:53,940 --> 00:26:51,009 for something that I couldn't explain or 504 00:26:56,789 --> 00:26:53,950 thought was highly suspicious okay so I 505 00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:56,799 knew I knew going in that there was if I 506 00:27:00,629 --> 00:26:58,330 was gonna spend seven nights in a row 507 00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,639 out there eight days in a row out there 508 00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:02,320 there was a good chance I was gonna see 509 00:27:07,019 --> 00:27:04,600 or hear or something because I my 510 00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:07,029 batting average was five hundred and 511 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,529 just for a guy who didn't really know 512 00:27:13,019 --> 00:27:10,720 much about what he was doing and and I 513 00:27:15,419 --> 00:27:13,029 just gone four times you know I had 514 00:27:17,879 --> 00:27:15,429 already gotten two hits on there so that 515 00:27:20,009 --> 00:27:17,889 was kind of doubts were really peaked my 516 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:20,019 interest in this particular area and 517 00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:22,330 then I started looking online and there 518 00:27:30,779 --> 00:27:26,950 were you know over 50 reports in the 519 00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:30,789 five County area in the county that I 520 00:27:34,499 --> 00:27:33,220 first heard this a howl and in the five 521 00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:34,509 surrounding for the four surrounding 522 00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:38,559 counties over 50 reports over many years 523 00:27:45,749 --> 00:27:41,230 and then I started I started listening 524 00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:45,759 to this other podcast and there were 525 00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:47,529 lots of there are lots of research 526 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:50,860 groups that are looking at this in fact 527 00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:54,850 I went back over there a few months ago 528 00:28:00,990 --> 00:27:58,690 in January and there are now not one but 529 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:01,000 two highways running through the forest 530 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:03,370 that are spots that are adopted by 531 00:28:08,580 --> 00:28:06,250 Bigfoot research groups oh wow well I 532 00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:08,590 know that you had mentioned in the book 533 00:28:15,899 --> 00:28:12,399 a film of that somebody had come into a 534 00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:15,909 broken up camp and felt like there were 535 00:28:24,029 --> 00:28:20,799 several people that had gone missing and 536 00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:24,039 presumed dead were you able to verify 537 00:28:30,810 --> 00:28:27,279 any of that in the interim well I wasn't 538 00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:30,820 but I I I will tell you something that's 539 00:28:38,220 --> 00:28:34,769 not in the book which is on that trip 540 00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:38,230 that I took in this January which that 541 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:41,740 was on New Year's Day this January the 542 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:43,690 same friend and I went back out there 543 00:28:49,769 --> 00:28:46,510 and and this was after the book had come 544 00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:49,779 out okay so this was all new to us and 545 00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:52,220 we went to a place that's Natori 546 00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:55,700 for Sasquatch sightings which is called 547 00:29:00,460 --> 00:28:58,490 Kelly pond and it's a it's one of the 548 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:00,470 few it's one of the three developed 549 00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:03,110 campgrounds in in Sam Eustace and 550 00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:04,940 national forests and there were a few 551 00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:06,710 people parked along the road kind of 552 00:29:13,899 --> 00:29:09,799 outside the this camp and then there was 553 00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:13,909 an RV inside the camp and then there was 554 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:18,590 a tent right near the pond in and you 555 00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:20,090 know I took a lot of comfort from the 556 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:22,880 fact that there's this tent that's near 557 00:29:28,299 --> 00:29:24,650 the pond this is this guy had a fishing 558 00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:28,309 pole and you know he had been like his 559 00:29:33,850 --> 00:29:31,880 flip-flops were out there and but it was 560 00:29:37,470 --> 00:29:33,860 quite cold you know that night was it 561 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:37,480 was the forecast was 19 degrees oh and 562 00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:39,770 some of my friend and I were just game 563 00:29:44,409 --> 00:29:43,039 game for going and and wanted to wanted 564 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:44,419 to make this happen so we you know took 565 00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:49,850 our warmest gear and we're gonna car 566 00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:54,169 camp in a tent camp there and we kept 567 00:30:00,669 --> 00:29:57,919 seeing this this other camp site that 568 00:30:02,919 --> 00:30:00,679 was right near the pond like you know 20 569 00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:02,929 feet for the man pond or so and we kept 570 00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:04,280 thinking wow when I wonder when that guy 571 00:30:07,659 --> 00:30:06,169 has ever if he's out on the day hike you 572 00:30:10,330 --> 00:30:07,669 know I wonder we just didn't see anybody 573 00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:10,340 around there but we saw all his stuff 574 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:14,240 there and so we hiked around the pond at 575 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:17,000 sundown and there were a couple of young 576 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:21,289 ladies that were in this RV that we said 577 00:30:25,270 --> 00:30:23,210 and we talked about hey well there's a 578 00:30:27,070 --> 00:30:25,280 there's somebody that's you know camping 579 00:30:30,130 --> 00:30:27,080 over there have you seen them and they 580 00:30:31,870 --> 00:30:30,140 had not seen him for three days they had 581 00:30:33,399 --> 00:30:31,880 been there for three days and they 582 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:33,409 hadn't seen anybody there either you 583 00:30:40,779 --> 00:30:37,970 know there was no car there and that the 584 00:30:44,409 --> 00:30:40,789 whole campsite was looked like it had 585 00:30:48,159 --> 00:30:44,419 been just abandoned there was food in a 586 00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,169 pot there was a high-dollar fishing gear 587 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:50,240 there was a high-dollar camp stove that 588 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:53,570 was just left out my dollar you mean 589 00:30:59,860 --> 00:30:58,130 expensive is that local okay sorry I 590 00:31:03,370 --> 00:30:59,870 thought it might be a brand name I just 591 00:31:05,620 --> 00:31:03,380 wanted to be clear what our regional 592 00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:05,630 cultural differences are here of it 593 00:31:11,140 --> 00:31:09,110 but yeah it was an expensive you know 594 00:31:13,180 --> 00:31:11,150 there were several hundred dollars worth 595 00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,190 of camping equipment there that 596 00:31:19,630 --> 00:31:15,200 apparently had just been abandoned Wow 597 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:19,640 and and Bob Garrett the guy who I quote 598 00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:22,250 a lot in the book yeah and the one he 599 00:31:28,390 --> 00:31:24,830 shot this film that's that's on YouTube 600 00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:28,400 called the torn up camp says that he 601 00:31:32,620 --> 00:31:30,380 comes across this situation in the 602 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:32,630 forest all the time that people will 603 00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:37,610 just up and abandon tents and in camping 604 00:31:44,169 --> 00:31:39,919 equipment in the the hundreds of dollars 605 00:31:46,690 --> 00:31:44,179 I have to likely stop you for just a 606 00:31:51,399 --> 00:31:46,700 moment and remind that our listeners 607 00:31:54,130 --> 00:31:51,409 that in our last podcast we had a very 608 00:31:59,260 --> 00:31:54,140 interesting gentleman named Terry 609 00:32:01,299 --> 00:31:59,270 Lovelace who had abandoned a whole bunch 610 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:01,309 of camping equipment when he went 611 00:32:08,770 --> 00:32:05,210 camping in Arkansas while he was in the 612 00:32:10,930 --> 00:32:08,780 service with him he was out camping with 613 00:32:13,539 --> 00:32:10,940 his friend the guy that drove an 614 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:13,549 ambulance with him he was an EMT in the 615 00:32:22,539 --> 00:32:19,010 Air Force and he was in in in a National 616 00:32:25,870 --> 00:32:22,549 Forest in Arkansas and he had a major 617 00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:25,880 UFO sighting and these guys they were 618 00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:29,360 also they were also whooped up in the 619 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:30,260 flying saucer 620 00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:34,250 into in the UFO and so what when they 621 00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:37,760 got back down to earth they they booked 622 00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:39,950 out of there they left in a big hurry 623 00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,710 left all their camping equipment there a 624 00:32:47,049 --> 00:32:45,200 camp stove everything behind and for 625 00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:47,059 them it was an amazing outlay of money 626 00:32:52,659 --> 00:32:50,750 because they were just servicemen not 627 00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:52,669 high-ranking or anything just the 628 00:32:57,970 --> 00:32:54,950 sergeant and whatever is underneath 629 00:33:01,360 --> 00:32:57,980 sergeant there the two of them and and 630 00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:01,370 they left their entire gear out in the 631 00:33:06,909 --> 00:33:03,590 National Forest so there could be more 632 00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:06,919 than one reason for absolution forest 633 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:09,590 including a grizzly I guess but there 634 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:11,110 are no Chris police down there and 635 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:13,690 in Florida and the Florida and Texas are 636 00:33:19,289 --> 00:33:17,770 there no no no bears at all unless it's 637 00:33:22,049 --> 00:33:19,299 West Texas and they come up from Mexico 638 00:33:25,980 --> 00:33:22,059 out into the big big band region but 639 00:33:28,380 --> 00:33:25,990 that's not in East Texas so so this was 640 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:28,390 a trip that you took this year and you 641 00:33:33,570 --> 00:33:31,570 found this abandoned campsite and what 642 00:33:36,210 --> 00:33:33,580 did Bob Garrett have to say about it 643 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:36,220 well I have not talked to him I would 644 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:41,010 love to talk to him but we you know the 645 00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:44,410 torn-up site that he found was very 646 00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:48,580 disturbing indeed and it was not very 647 00:33:56,490 --> 00:33:52,870 far is several miles but not not no more 648 00:33:59,760 --> 00:33:56,500 than five miles the the site that's 649 00:34:03,299 --> 00:33:59,770 purported to be the torn up camp is 650 00:34:06,030 --> 00:34:03,309 about five miles from this pond where we 651 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:06,040 were so I you know I don't know what his 652 00:34:10,619 --> 00:34:08,050 opinion would be of it but it would you 653 00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:10,629 would undoubtedly it I think say that 654 00:34:19,169 --> 00:34:17,200 this was typical of what he sees and it 655 00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:19,179 was clear to us you know that this guy 656 00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:21,720 just left in a huge hurry and wasn't 657 00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:25,030 didn't come back and there was there was 658 00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:27,550 do left in the pot nothing was been 659 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:30,669 cleaned immediately it was it and it was 660 00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:32,290 interesting a week I finally got up the 661 00:34:40,619 --> 00:34:37,200 nerve to go over there and open the tent 662 00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:40,629 and because I wasn't sure you know this 663 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:42,760 guy have does he have a heart attack and 664 00:34:46,379 --> 00:34:44,050 just died here so I didn't know what we 665 00:34:49,590 --> 00:34:46,389 were gonna find so I opened the tent and 666 00:34:52,139 --> 00:34:49,600 it was an odd sight there were nobody 667 00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:52,149 was there but there were these stacks of 668 00:34:59,160 --> 00:34:56,800 batteries inside the tent and I didn't 669 00:35:03,020 --> 00:34:59,170 quite know what to make of that extinct 670 00:35:06,570 --> 00:35:03,030 about it later and my best guess is that 671 00:35:11,099 --> 00:35:06,580 he was out there restocking trail 672 00:35:13,859 --> 00:35:11,109 cameras either for either for deer or as 673 00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:13,869 a sasquatch research because you know 674 00:35:19,410 --> 00:35:15,460 people will do that they'll set up 675 00:35:20,990 --> 00:35:19,420 cameras all over North America to try to 676 00:35:25,609 --> 00:35:21,000 catch one on 677 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:25,619 on video and so he could been out doing 678 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:27,210 that or he could have been restocking 679 00:35:33,140 --> 00:35:30,570 batteries in trail cams for deer hunting 680 00:35:36,609 --> 00:35:33,150 - sure and just gotten surprised by one 681 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:36,619 of these things and was just out of it 682 00:35:44,030 --> 00:35:41,130 well we did not sleep any better for 683 00:35:46,670 --> 00:35:44,040 knowing that that that campsite that we 684 00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:46,680 thought was such a comfort originally to 685 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:49,790 us was actually an abandoned site so 686 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:52,530 again you know this is more confirmation 687 00:35:59,050 --> 00:35:56,130 of Garrett's whole view of the forest 688 00:36:02,510 --> 00:35:59,060 and everything that's going on in it so 689 00:36:06,490 --> 00:36:02,520 what I want to talk about with you 690 00:36:10,690 --> 00:36:06,500 because you are one of our only 691 00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:10,700 cryptozoological e motivated type guests 692 00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:14,609 my adventures in cryptozoology are 693 00:36:20,089 --> 00:36:17,609 limited to having seen these giant black 694 00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:20,099 butterflies that don't actually exist 695 00:36:27,859 --> 00:36:23,520 and I saw them with several other people 696 00:36:32,210 --> 00:36:27,869 during one day one October a few years 697 00:36:36,220 --> 00:36:32,220 ago but as far as any larger animals 698 00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:36,230 cryptozoological II I don't have any any 699 00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:39,540 experience but my mind I do have an open 700 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:42,750 mind to things and while I do not 701 00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:46,650 believe I also do not not believe so we 702 00:36:51,950 --> 00:36:49,140 have to talk a little bit about the 703 00:36:55,609 --> 00:36:51,960 cryptozoological community in the US 704 00:36:58,070 --> 00:36:55,619 which seems somewhat fractured by my 705 00:37:01,359 --> 00:36:58,080 estimation I always thought the youthful 706 00:37:04,130 --> 00:37:01,369 aaja chol UFO community was 707 00:37:06,589 --> 00:37:04,140 argumentative and sometimes petty and 708 00:37:09,170 --> 00:37:06,599 you know fighting with one another and 709 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:09,180 making outrageous claims from time to 710 00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:13,530 time and you try to sift the wheat from 711 00:37:21,070 --> 00:37:17,359 the chaff in and in that venue and then 712 00:37:23,570 --> 00:37:21,080 looking at the FIFA logic the 713 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:23,580 cryptozoological community and they're 714 00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:26,690 worse there were some skills I'm sorry 715 00:37:33,170 --> 00:37:30,660 I'm a big fan of somebody you mentioned 716 00:37:34,819 --> 00:37:33,180 in the book I'm a big fan of David Polly 717 00:37:36,890 --> 00:37:34,829 Dee's polite ease 718 00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:36,900 I think he's a very interesting 719 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:39,689 researcher and I know and you had 720 00:37:47,749 --> 00:37:42,089 mentioned this in the book that he had 721 00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:47,759 some samples of Sasquatch hair and other 722 00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:51,089 things and he had them sent to a a woman 723 00:37:56,769 --> 00:37:55,049 who did some genealogical and I not 724 00:37:59,749 --> 00:37:56,779 genealogical what's the word genetic 725 00:38:03,380 --> 00:37:59,759 genetic research on them and found out 726 00:38:05,989 --> 00:38:03,390 that the hair samples exhibited some 727 00:38:08,059 --> 00:38:05,999 human characteristics like the mother's 728 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:08,069 happy with the mother's haplogroup was 729 00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:11,249 human whereas the fathers group which is 730 00:38:20,809 --> 00:38:17,609 jino group is was unknown hominid or 731 00:38:25,150 --> 00:38:20,819 something to that effect and so it would 732 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:25,160 give the indication that Sasquatch is 733 00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:29,729 part human part other and this has been 734 00:38:35,689 --> 00:38:32,609 going on according to the woman's 735 00:38:38,029 --> 00:38:35,699 research for ten thousand years back is 736 00:38:40,759 --> 00:38:38,039 that basically the gist of the 737 00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:40,769 situations that's what the claim is and 738 00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:43,049 I think she says fifteen thousand years 739 00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:46,529 okay based on the molecular rate of 740 00:38:53,029 --> 00:38:50,160 mutation you know this is obviously 741 00:38:56,929 --> 00:38:53,039 highly controversial there are a lot of 742 00:38:59,299 --> 00:38:56,939 people even in the Bigfoot community if 743 00:39:04,329 --> 00:38:59,309 you can call it that or Bigfoot 744 00:39:06,499 --> 00:39:04,339 enthusiasts who who don't buy this study 745 00:39:09,410 --> 00:39:06,509 there are some who do there's somebody 746 00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:09,420 don't me needless to say mainstream 747 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:14,640 science rejects it out of hand but I 748 00:39:22,609 --> 00:39:19,410 know for my part I've I found it to be 749 00:39:25,069 --> 00:39:22,619 fairly credible just on on the face of 750 00:39:26,839 --> 00:39:25,079 it that you know when you when you ask 751 00:39:29,929 --> 00:39:26,849 what what are these things well they're 752 00:39:33,410 --> 00:39:29,939 they're clearly more than just upright 753 00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:33,420 gorillas I think that they're they're 754 00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:36,150 much closer orders of magnitude closer 755 00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:39,900 to humans than any of the other great 756 00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:42,209 apes although they you know 757 00:39:47,359 --> 00:39:45,689 morphologically just based on the length 758 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:47,369 of their limbs the way that they're 759 00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:48,330 built 760 00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:53,400 the way that they ambulate they seem to 761 00:39:58,940 --> 00:39:55,920 occupy a kind of a kind of a halfway 762 00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:58,950 point between humans and other great 763 00:40:03,350 --> 00:40:01,320 apes but if you look at if you look at 764 00:40:06,860 --> 00:40:03,360 things like the foot 765 00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:06,870 well the foot their five toes that are 766 00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:09,660 all Alliant aligned and forward-facing 767 00:40:18,860 --> 00:40:14,780 as opposed to opposable toes of gorillas 768 00:40:22,580 --> 00:40:18,870 so there's some clues that we don't have 769 00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:22,590 to even look at genetics to see just 770 00:40:27,740 --> 00:40:25,020 morphologically how similar they are in 771 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:27,750 many ways to humans and then through 772 00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:36,110 hooded noses like ours okay they don't 773 00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:38,820 have upward facing nostrils like the 774 00:40:45,830 --> 00:40:41,460 great apes do and so there's there's a 775 00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:45,840 lot just just in those two examples you 776 00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:50,910 know you can see it's it's probable and 777 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:53,160 certainly plausible that there's some 778 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:55,050 sort of hybridization event that has 779 00:41:00,020 --> 00:40:56,610 happened 780 00:41:02,830 --> 00:41:00,030 I know that in the northwest the 781 00:41:06,140 --> 00:41:02,840 indigenous Americans that live there are 782 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:06,150 of the opinion that this is a human in 783 00:41:11,690 --> 00:41:08,370 the forest a hairy human in the forest 784 00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:11,700 basically they they respect the the idea 785 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:14,550 of a sasquatch and and they consider it 786 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:18,090 entirely realistic if you will on the 787 00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:23,370 other hand my cohorts to the west of us 788 00:41:29,390 --> 00:41:26,700 here in Pennsylvania not too very far 789 00:41:33,110 --> 00:41:29,400 away have all kinds of sightings that 790 00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:33,120 are related to UFOs and and and big feet 791 00:41:40,310 --> 00:41:38,400 big funds Bigfoot I can't get my my 792 00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:40,320 mouth around saying things well it's for 793 00:41:47,450 --> 00:41:44,550 some reason but in any case they sort of 794 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:47,460 they sort of equate them with UFOs and 795 00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:50,130 there are people who think they're 796 00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:51,900 flesh-and-blood creatures and there are 797 00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:54,270 there are people who think that they are 798 00:42:03,739 --> 00:42:00,079 not and I know with you a lot of your 799 00:42:06,889 --> 00:42:03,749 work on the subject starts with you 800 00:42:08,569 --> 00:42:06,899 believing that there are Bigfoots right 801 00:42:10,219 --> 00:42:08,579 I mean their belief is there that you 802 00:42:12,709 --> 00:42:10,229 believe that there are Bigfoots and that 803 00:42:16,099 --> 00:42:12,719 makes it easier for you to recognize the 804 00:42:19,609 --> 00:42:16,109 howls or the knocks and so forth that's 805 00:42:22,249 --> 00:42:19,619 right and belief has always been for me 806 00:42:23,899 --> 00:42:22,259 a difficult word not because I don't 807 00:42:25,969 --> 00:42:23,909 have them everybody does so you wouldn't 808 00:42:27,529 --> 00:42:25,979 be able to find your way into the 809 00:42:31,129 --> 00:42:27,539 kitchen because you believe it's down 810 00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:31,139 the hallway right so there is a certain 811 00:42:36,709 --> 00:42:33,630 amount of things that are but we could 812 00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:36,719 say they're knowns and so I would just I 813 00:42:44,959 --> 00:42:41,369 would I would draw a line between 814 00:42:49,459 --> 00:42:44,969 beliefs as in you know a belief in a 815 00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:49,469 religion or a any anything that you 816 00:42:54,799 --> 00:42:52,079 haven't seen or experienced very 817 00:42:56,959 --> 00:42:54,809 straight on and knowns like we know 818 00:43:01,389 --> 00:42:56,969 where the kitchen is purportedly in our 819 00:43:04,459 --> 00:43:01,399 house is reality 820 00:43:07,879 --> 00:43:04,469 yeah consensus reality but then there's 821 00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:07,889 like you you're very well-read gentleman 822 00:43:14,749 --> 00:43:10,049 and I am sure you know the idea of a 823 00:43:18,219 --> 00:43:14,759 Tulpa right I'm sorry boy tul PA do you 824 00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:18,229 know the concept of a Tulpa no all right 825 00:43:25,669 --> 00:43:22,529 enlighten me okay tapas the word I 826 00:43:31,779 --> 00:43:25,679 believe comes from the Himalayan 827 00:43:38,139 --> 00:43:35,389 Tibetan Buddhism kind of area maybe 828 00:43:43,879 --> 00:43:38,149 north of India north northern India 829 00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,889 where some of the adepts we'll call them 830 00:43:47,749 --> 00:43:45,599 that I don't want to call them Swami's 831 00:43:52,729 --> 00:43:47,759 that sort of sounds ridiculous but the 832 00:43:55,999 --> 00:43:52,739 adepts in that region could think very 833 00:43:59,239 --> 00:43:56,009 hard about something about a creature 834 00:44:02,539 --> 00:43:59,249 sort of like in and Jewish mysticism the 835 00:44:05,509 --> 00:44:02,549 Golem okay I get my hitting you on any 836 00:44:07,489 --> 00:44:05,519 of this you any of this okay I I have 837 00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:07,499 heard a little on a previous show of 838 00:44:13,730 --> 00:44:09,839 yours I heard a little bit of a 839 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:13,740 discussion of this idea but go ahead and 840 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:17,890 some time ago and I'm gonna be a loss 841 00:44:25,230 --> 00:44:20,650 for the right word involving this but a 842 00:44:27,450 --> 00:44:25,240 group of people in North America they 843 00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:27,460 may have been in southern southern 844 00:44:38,010 --> 00:44:34,800 Eastern Canada and they called up a 845 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:38,020 spirit that didn't exist basically and 846 00:44:46,650 --> 00:44:42,970 that spirit took on a personality and a 847 00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:46,660 name I think it was called Philip and it 848 00:44:53,010 --> 00:44:50,260 actually began to have like a presence 849 00:44:56,670 --> 00:44:53,020 that went be it started to answer 850 00:44:59,610 --> 00:44:56,680 questions on the Ouija board it made EVP 851 00:45:01,320 --> 00:44:59,620 sounds and it's a it's it's called one 852 00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:01,330 of the things it's called is the Philip 853 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:03,730 experiment and and so this was an 854 00:45:08,310 --> 00:45:06,250 example a modern-day example of a tapa 855 00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:08,320 there was also a woman who was an 856 00:45:13,110 --> 00:45:11,110 explorer in India and she apparently 857 00:45:16,410 --> 00:45:13,120 decided that she needed a butler or 858 00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:16,420 someone like that and she created a 859 00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:18,910 Tulpa she was a spiritual student in 860 00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:21,520 India northern India and she created and 861 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:28,950 exactly Jack Parsons about whom there's 862 00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:31,810 God was the one of the people who 863 00:45:41,850 --> 00:45:37,390 founded part of NASA and out in 864 00:45:45,810 --> 00:45:41,860 California he had done some experiments 865 00:45:49,290 --> 00:45:45,820 and apparently may have created a Tulpa 866 00:45:52,170 --> 00:45:49,300 so what's your thoughts about that do 867 00:45:55,530 --> 00:45:52,180 you think that the Bigfoot could be you 868 00:45:57,780 --> 00:45:55,540 could raise one up as a Tulpa or do you 869 00:46:03,720 --> 00:45:57,790 think that's totally off the wall and 870 00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:03,730 under the table well you know my I have 871 00:46:10,350 --> 00:46:06,160 never thought about that before but I I 872 00:46:12,300 --> 00:46:10,360 kind of I guess just as a as a religious 873 00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,310 matter and I know that we don't really 874 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:14,560 talk about religion on this show but I 875 00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:17,610 guess that you know my opinion is that 876 00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:21,760 God can make a spirit and and that's 877 00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:25,750 about it and I think that what when I'm 878 00:46:30,499 --> 00:46:26,880 talking about as far 879 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:30,509 as inspiration or faith or belief is 880 00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:32,250 much more down-to-earth and I think the 881 00:46:36,529 --> 00:46:33,839 key sentence I actually went and found 882 00:46:40,279 --> 00:46:36,539 this or in the book earlier in it which 883 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:40,289 is a quote from Saint Augustine who says 884 00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:43,170 you know faith is to believe what you do 885 00:46:51,380 --> 00:46:47,099 not see the reward of this faith is to 886 00:46:55,849 --> 00:46:51,390 see what you believe so it's not that 887 00:46:58,460 --> 00:46:55,859 it's not that I created Bigfoots out 888 00:47:01,099 --> 00:46:58,470 there by believing that they exist it's 889 00:47:03,079 --> 00:47:01,109 that I believed and therefore I knew 890 00:47:05,809 --> 00:47:03,089 what to look for and what to listen for 891 00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:05,819 and therefore I found evidence I respect 892 00:47:11,809 --> 00:47:08,400 that so I do really I respect that 893 00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:11,819 yes the only other ones were down to 894 00:47:20,420 --> 00:47:16,529 earth explanation yes the tapas are a 895 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:20,430 little bit more exotic I would say I 896 00:47:26,779 --> 00:47:23,970 don't I just threw that out as a talking 897 00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:26,789 point about that it's it's a fair 898 00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,369 question and I will say that you know 899 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:31,440 one thing that our this whole experience 900 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:33,450 has really taught me is to just reserve 901 00:47:43,130 --> 00:47:38,130 judgment on on anything like that you 902 00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:43,140 know I can I think there's a tendency to 903 00:47:48,529 --> 00:47:46,559 what I what I say in the book is use 904 00:47:51,609 --> 00:47:48,539 binary thinking that either we 905 00:47:54,049 --> 00:47:51,619 understand something or it doesn't exist 906 00:47:55,759 --> 00:47:54,059 and I think that's a mistake I think 907 00:47:57,859 --> 00:47:55,769 there's a lot out there that exists that 908 00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:57,869 we don't yet understand I mean I think 909 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:00,000 that's the premise of a lot of of your 910 00:48:04,370 --> 00:48:03,690 episodes the whole show yes absolutely I 911 00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:04,380 agree 912 00:48:12,259 --> 00:48:10,079 I also despise binary thinking to a very 913 00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:12,269 large extent and I agree with you a 914 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:15,089 hundred percent about that and I have to 915 00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:16,890 say to you even though I throw out these 916 00:48:21,890 --> 00:48:19,380 little talking points I don't know what 917 00:48:23,839 --> 00:48:21,900 Big Foot is or isn't I certainly I could 918 00:48:25,970 --> 00:48:23,849 not begin to tell you what it is or 919 00:48:30,289 --> 00:48:25,980 isn't another interesting idea however 920 00:48:35,329 --> 00:48:30,299 is that Bigfoot is a flesh-and-blood 921 00:48:39,460 --> 00:48:35,339 creature but that comes through a portal 922 00:48:43,180 --> 00:48:39,470 area and that is why there sometimes 923 00:48:45,220 --> 00:48:43,190 associated with UFOs who which are also 924 00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:45,230 considered to sometimes come through a 925 00:48:51,820 --> 00:48:48,800 portal and that that's an in that seems 926 00:48:54,010 --> 00:48:51,830 to me to be almost a more interesting 927 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:54,020 concept and could explain the 928 00:48:59,560 --> 00:48:56,570 disappearance of Bigfoot where you knows 929 00:49:02,160 --> 00:48:59,570 once you see them and then you don't and 930 00:49:05,290 --> 00:49:02,170 and that sort of is is is a theory that 931 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:05,300 intrigues me let us say but I do not 932 00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:07,210 think I would want to get into a 933 00:49:12,359 --> 00:49:09,920 controversy over Bigfoot which I don't 934 00:49:14,890 --> 00:49:12,369 you know who I don't know much about 935 00:49:16,150 --> 00:49:14,900 alright and and there's you'll find I 936 00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:16,160 mean the more people that you talk to 937 00:49:23,770 --> 00:49:21,950 that there's a whole spectrum of beliefs 938 00:49:27,970 --> 00:49:23,780 about what it is and what it's capable 939 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:27,980 of that run from it's just a basically 940 00:49:35,470 --> 00:49:30,650 that it is an upright gorilla that is 941 00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:35,480 just very good at at avoiding people - 942 00:49:39,099 --> 00:49:37,460 what you're talking about that they're 943 00:49:41,770 --> 00:49:39,109 associated with the UFOs they're 944 00:49:45,370 --> 00:49:41,780 associated with these orbs of light that 945 00:49:47,650 --> 00:49:45,380 people have spotted in the forest that 946 00:49:51,370 --> 00:49:47,660 they can they can vanish into thin air 947 00:49:54,730 --> 00:49:51,380 that so there's a whole range of beliefs 948 00:49:56,770 --> 00:49:54,740 and one thing that I do say in the book 949 00:49:59,230 --> 00:49:56,780 is that every everybody tends to believe 950 00:50:04,839 --> 00:49:59,240 that they know where the line is between 951 00:50:09,820 --> 00:50:04,849 crazy and not crazy and I would just 952 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:09,830 very slow to accuse anyone of say of not 953 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:13,010 seeing what they say they saw right if 954 00:50:17,410 --> 00:50:15,770 if you say that a purple dragon flew out 955 00:50:20,020 --> 00:50:17,420 of the sky and landed in the front yard 956 00:50:23,740 --> 00:50:20,030 in nature petunias and then flew back 957 00:50:25,089 --> 00:50:23,750 off I would say well well that's very 958 00:50:27,609 --> 00:50:25,099 that's very interesting 959 00:50:31,210 --> 00:50:27,619 do you have any theories about that that 960 00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:31,220 lets you know I I'm not here to tell 961 00:50:35,650 --> 00:50:32,510 people that they didn't see what they 962 00:50:38,620 --> 00:50:35,660 what they say they saw I'm with you 100% 963 00:50:41,290 --> 00:50:38,630 on that I you know come up with a theory 964 00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:41,300 test it and let's go from there I mean 965 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:43,520 that's how knowledge grows you know not 966 00:50:46,839 --> 00:50:45,170 just by slamming the door on everything 967 00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:46,849 and saying well that's crazy 968 00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:50,510 we like our guests be sincere and I 969 00:50:53,470 --> 00:50:53,030 think you're very sincere and I think 970 00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:53,480 that 971 00:51:01,390 --> 00:50:57,890 a lot to learn about Bigfoot seriously I 972 00:51:05,230 --> 00:51:01,400 do think so and I I hope that you will 973 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:05,240 keep us posted about your doings if you 974 00:51:10,839 --> 00:51:08,210 write another Bigfoot book or something 975 00:51:13,390 --> 00:51:10,849 else about the paranormal area I hope 976 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:13,400 you'll keep us in mind and if you 977 00:51:20,940 --> 00:51:15,770 wouldn't mind right now repeat your 978 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:20,950 website your book name and any other 979 00:51:26,140 --> 00:51:23,450 items of interest that we need to know 980 00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:26,150 well thank you so much for having me on 981 00:51:30,839 --> 00:51:28,910 for Asia it's been a real honor and the 982 00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:30,849 name of the book is monster hike a 983 00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:33,440 100-mile inquiry into the Sasquatch 984 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:37,609 mystery and my website is Averill that's 985 00:51:49,390 --> 00:51:45,170 a v as in victor far al s e-a-l e-r or 986 00:51:52,359 --> 00:51:49,400 press.com the name of the of the of the 987 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:52,369 blog is called the trailhead which was 988 00:51:56,020 --> 00:51:54,530 just kind of coincidental is it's about 989 00:51:58,300 --> 00:51:56,030 all kinds of things it's not just about 990 00:52:02,500 --> 00:51:58,310 paranormal it's a it's a site for my 991 00:52:04,510 --> 00:52:02,510 poetry it's a site for photography so 992 00:52:07,210 --> 00:52:04,520 lots of different things on there 993 00:52:10,109 --> 00:52:07,220 but the latest thing does on is a link 994 00:52:13,329 --> 00:52:10,119 to the book and some bonuses some some 995 00:52:16,359 --> 00:52:13,339 some pictures from the hike that I've 996 00:52:17,890 --> 00:52:16,369 put up that are in color as opposed to 997 00:52:20,980 --> 00:52:17,900 the black and white ones that you'll 998 00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:20,990 find in the book and I called monster 999 00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:23,359 hike bonuses well he's a good writer 1000 00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:26,089 ladies and gentlemen and all friends 1001 00:52:34,780 --> 00:52:30,800 human and quasi human out there joking 1002 00:52:37,150 --> 00:52:34,790 but he is a wonderful writer avro April 1003 00:52:41,740 --> 00:52:37,160 is a wonderful writer and he also sings 1004 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:41,750 I warn you he also sings Thank You April 1005 00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:45,770 thank you thank you 1006 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:48,950 thank you so much thank you alright bye 1007 00:52:59,440 --> 00:52:54,530 now fight we have with us today one of 1008 00:53:02,920 --> 00:52:59,450 our listeners who is a remarkable young 1009 00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:02,930 lady who lives in North E at Northern 1010 00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:04,880 California whereabouts in California do 1011 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:06,319 you live just generally you don't want 1012 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:07,250 your address or anything 1013 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:10,690 don't want any mashers visiting you I 1014 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:14,810 just look in the Napa Valley okay yeah 1015 00:53:19,390 --> 00:53:17,330 so your your further north and and 1016 00:53:22,060 --> 00:53:19,400 you're not way up but you're Midway or 1017 00:53:28,750 --> 00:53:22,070 further north in California you're above 1018 00:53:32,020 --> 00:53:28,760 LA and yes so we have yes so we have 1019 00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:32,030 here a person as I said a wonderful 1020 00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:34,910 young lady who is very interested in the 1021 00:53:39,610 --> 00:53:37,310 paranormal who runs around in some 1022 00:53:43,060 --> 00:53:39,620 paranormal circles on the internet that 1023 00:53:45,370 --> 00:53:43,070 I run around in and I is also a listener 1024 00:53:48,070 --> 00:53:45,380 to shattered reality podcast so we have 1025 00:53:50,890 --> 00:53:48,080 here Stephanie quick and Stephanie is 1026 00:53:54,100 --> 00:53:50,900 also a very fashionable lady she creates 1027 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:54,110 her own fashions and while this may not 1028 00:54:00,070 --> 00:53:56,570 be of great interest to the paranormal 1029 00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,080 community I find it really cool thank 1030 00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:03,200 you thank you 1031 00:54:10,810 --> 00:54:06,620 now we just finished we're we're in the 1032 00:54:13,450 --> 00:54:10,820 midst right now of our 68th podcast and 1033 00:54:16,570 --> 00:54:13,460 you are our second guest our first guest 1034 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:16,580 was a gentleman named Avril seal who 1035 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:20,210 wrote a book called monster hike and it 1036 00:54:29,590 --> 00:54:23,810 was a hundred mile hike into the Sam 1037 00:54:34,830 --> 00:54:29,600 Houston National Forest near Austin 1038 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:34,840 Texas and so he went camping and he 1039 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:38,330 feels that he found some good evidence 1040 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:42,610 of sasquatches so do you have any 1041 00:54:49,780 --> 00:54:45,050 experience with that being in an area 1042 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:49,790 that is closer to more sightings you 1043 00:54:56,830 --> 00:54:54,530 know it was funny when you Bigfoot 1044 00:55:00,040 --> 00:54:56,840 researcher on because I'm headed up to 1045 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:00,050 Bigfoot country on Friday to Nevada City 1046 00:55:03,790 --> 00:55:02,330 in California which is a ghost town and 1047 00:55:05,620 --> 00:55:03,800 it's actually well known for being 1048 00:55:07,420 --> 00:55:05,630 haunted actually I stayed in a red 1049 00:55:09,970 --> 00:55:07,430 castle in there once and they have a 1050 00:55:12,430 --> 00:55:09,980 pretty famous ghost which I got a little 1051 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:12,440 bit of a experience of which was kind of 1052 00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,210 interesting but know it's funny because 1053 00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:16,400 um you know I 1054 00:55:22,450 --> 00:55:18,910 bird-watching growing up we were always 1055 00:55:24,610 --> 00:55:22,460 camping up in the Sierra Nevadas in the 1056 00:55:27,250 --> 00:55:24,620 mountains and both sides of my family 1057 00:55:29,020 --> 00:55:27,260 are from the area south of Yosemite and 1058 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:29,030 the Sierras there and the foothills and 1059 00:55:35,890 --> 00:55:31,970 um no one in my family family has any 1060 00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:35,900 experience a Bigfoot whatsoever however 1061 00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,480 I will say I don't rule it out because 1062 00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:40,640 like I said you know growing up we went 1063 00:55:46,030 --> 00:55:43,040 camping all the time I never saw a bear 1064 00:55:47,830 --> 00:55:46,040 my mom saw bears multiple times every 1065 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:47,840 time we went camping so I think lots of 1066 00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:49,610 times you know even with just you know 1067 00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:51,590 prosaic mundane animals there's a 1068 00:55:56,530 --> 00:55:55,040 certain magnetism or something where you 1069 00:55:58,570 --> 00:55:56,540 know certain people will see them a lot 1070 00:56:01,770 --> 00:55:58,580 and other people just won't so I don't 1071 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:01,780 roll it out well I've seen several bears 1072 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:05,450 in the Northeast year but no no 1073 00:56:12,340 --> 00:56:09,770 sasquatch no sesamoid well we don't have 1074 00:56:14,830 --> 00:56:12,350 to we don't have to go on with the 1075 00:56:17,410 --> 00:56:14,840 Sasquatch parts but just wanted to find 1076 00:56:20,110 --> 00:56:17,420 out given that you were in an area that 1077 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:20,120 is you know somewhat known for Sasquatch 1078 00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:22,610 and that the Native Americans up there 1079 00:56:27,790 --> 00:56:25,730 the indigenous peoples they even say 1080 00:56:29,770 --> 00:56:27,800 this is the you know the old man in the 1081 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:29,780 forest and they believe that they're the 1082 00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:34,730 forest people so oh yeah it's cool so 1083 00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:37,870 tell us more about your experiences 1084 00:56:49,690 --> 00:56:43,040 paranormal experiences well um let's see 1085 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:49,700 if short version is I just you know from 1086 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:50,930 the time I mean from the time I can 1087 00:56:54,940 --> 00:56:54,050 remember which is like I was always just 1088 00:56:58,810 --> 00:56:54,950 had this feeling that there was 1089 00:57:00,520 --> 00:56:58,820 something behind reality as it was 1090 00:57:02,140 --> 00:57:00,530 understood and I was always just dying 1091 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:02,150 to know what it was you know like Toto I 1092 00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:04,210 wanted to pull that curtain back yeah 1093 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:06,710 but I was a kid so I didn't really have 1094 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:10,490 much in the way to you know to know how 1095 00:57:13,630 --> 00:57:11,570 to go about you know I didn't know 1096 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:13,640 anything about enlightenment or mystical 1097 00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:15,370 experiences or meditation or anything 1098 00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:20,270 because I'm 56 I'm not that young and so 1099 00:57:25,570 --> 00:57:23,510 this is like in the 70s then when I was 1100 00:57:29,740 --> 00:57:25,580 in my teens I became very ill and when I 1101 00:57:30,580 --> 00:57:29,750 was 22 I had a near-death experience oh 1102 00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:30,590 wow 1103 00:57:34,930 --> 00:57:33,290 yeah it was um during a medical 1104 00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:34,940 procedure I was in convulsions for 20 1105 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:43,520 minutes and and yeah it was pretty and 1106 00:57:47,710 --> 00:57:45,890 this is like a 1984 so there wasn't a 1107 00:57:49,540 --> 00:57:47,720 lot of information about near-death 1108 00:57:52,420 --> 00:57:49,550 experiences kind of around at that time 1109 00:57:55,930 --> 00:57:52,430 and then mine was a very kind of a dark 1110 00:57:58,210 --> 00:57:55,940 and Tibetan flavor so you know I had no 1111 00:58:02,140 --> 00:57:58,220 idea what when I'd been through for 1112 00:58:04,540 --> 00:58:02,150 several years afterwards but I received 1113 00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:04,550 kind of a lot of teachings and ideas and 1114 00:58:10,540 --> 00:58:07,250 practices and so of course I just jumped 1115 00:58:12,190 --> 00:58:10,550 in with both feet on that because I was 1116 00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:12,200 just dying to know and then I got a 1117 00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:14,000 taste of it so I wasn't even working do 1118 00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:16,850 I need to know about the experience 1119 00:58:31,390 --> 00:58:26,110 told it very much to anyone except for 1120 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:31,400 family so basically I had it's kind of 1121 00:58:35,260 --> 00:58:33,170 like asthma bronchitis probably 1122 00:58:37,450 --> 00:58:35,270 autoimmune type of thing and they were 1123 00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:37,460 giving me like everything that they had 1124 00:58:43,180 --> 00:58:40,610 and it had been weeks and I was still 1125 00:58:45,970 --> 00:58:43,190 you know basically on the way out so 1126 00:58:47,620 --> 00:58:45,980 they decided to do this procedure where 1127 00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:47,630 they take a bronchoscope which is like a 1128 00:58:53,530 --> 00:58:50,480 flexible tube with a laser in it yeah 1129 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:53,540 they can use to take biopsies and look 1130 00:58:58,810 --> 00:58:57,290 down in you and also to give medicine if 1131 00:59:01,810 --> 00:58:58,820 they want so they're gonna put this 1132 00:59:04,780 --> 00:59:01,820 bronze cup bronze scope up my nose and 1133 00:59:06,430 --> 00:59:04,790 down onto my Bron key and then spray 1134 00:59:12,220 --> 00:59:06,440 lidocaine on like when you get your 1135 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:12,230 tooth and sometimes and some people this 1136 00:59:17,010 --> 00:59:13,850 will calm things down and kind of break 1137 00:59:19,870 --> 00:59:17,020 the cycle so they decided to do this and 1138 00:59:21,370 --> 00:59:19,880 unfortunately for me well the doctor 1139 00:59:23,230 --> 00:59:21,380 knew that it could be risky because I 1140 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:23,240 didn't have parathyroids which control 1141 00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:26,090 your calcium metabolism so the lidocaine 1142 00:59:31,540 --> 00:59:29,510 bound with all the calcium and I went 1143 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:31,550 into convulsions really bad I could get 1144 00:59:38,460 --> 00:59:34,450 yeah but the interesting thing to me was 1145 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:38,470 my experience going into this 1146 00:59:43,089 --> 00:59:42,290 NDE was you know I'm doctors there you 1147 00:59:44,499 --> 00:59:43,099 know it 1148 00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:44,509 get the medicine where I needs to go you 1149 00:59:49,779 --> 00:59:45,890 need to inhale it as you're inhaling 1150 00:59:51,999 --> 00:59:49,789 this liquid healing medicine is coming 1151 00:59:54,130 --> 00:59:52,009 down from your head into your lungs and 1152 00:59:55,449 --> 00:59:54,140 you can see this bright like red light 1153 00:59:58,660 --> 00:59:55,459 because the legs are so strong in your 1154 00:59:59,799 --> 00:59:58,670 chest and of course you know your sense 1155 01:00:01,509 --> 00:59:59,809 of self is getting dissolved because 1156 01:00:02,890 --> 01:00:01,519 they don't want to make these things any 1157 01:00:04,479 --> 01:00:02,900 longer than they need to see your nose 1158 01:00:09,009 --> 01:00:04,489 who knows that this doctor doing this to 1159 01:00:13,329 --> 01:00:09,019 you and then years later I ended up 1160 01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:13,339 going to a Buddhist exhibition in San 1161 01:00:17,259 --> 01:00:15,920 Francisco and there was just must be 1162 01:00:19,269 --> 01:00:17,269 Dennis strike me but this one black 1163 01:00:22,449 --> 01:00:19,279 tonka pollen longing is like a protect 1164 01:00:24,279 --> 01:00:22,459 us of the Dalai Lama I was like that 1165 01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:24,289 person saw the same thing I did and I 1166 01:00:31,180 --> 01:00:28,880 got so worked up had any connection to 1167 01:00:33,660 --> 01:00:31,190 anything till that point and then when I 1168 01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:33,670 so years later when I was I 1169 01:00:38,650 --> 01:00:35,839 33:34 I went and lived at a Tibetan 1170 01:00:41,890 --> 01:00:38,660 Buddhist meditation center for well up 1171 01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:41,900 in Kensington California and the first 1172 01:00:45,849 --> 01:00:43,910 time I sat down for easy meditation I 1173 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:45,859 was pretty surprised because it's 1174 01:00:50,019 --> 01:00:48,890 basically you imagine there's this Lotus 1175 01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:50,029 on top of your head and there's this 1176 01:00:53,170 --> 01:00:51,529 healing liquid going out from your head 1177 01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:53,180 towards your chest and you have this 1178 01:00:56,079 --> 01:00:54,559 bright light in your chest and you're 1179 01:00:59,499 --> 01:00:56,089 breathing so it was like the same type 1180 01:01:05,289 --> 01:00:59,509 of thing that precipitated this Andy Wow 1181 01:01:07,509 --> 01:01:05,299 yes but the experience itself was you 1182 01:01:09,699 --> 01:01:07,519 know I was just going along Elvis and I 1183 01:01:11,410 --> 01:01:09,709 was in this space that would classically 1184 01:01:13,359 --> 01:01:11,420 be the void which of course sounds very 1185 01:01:15,939 --> 01:01:13,369 nice in the heart suture because oh it's 1186 01:01:18,969 --> 01:01:15,949 big but it's small as well but it's 1187 01:01:21,609 --> 01:01:18,979 quiet but you know when you go from 1188 01:01:23,589 --> 01:01:21,619 being in like four dimensional reality 1189 01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:23,599 to some places completely other it was 1190 01:01:29,439 --> 01:01:26,930 the most terrible I can't tell it was so 1191 01:01:32,410 --> 01:01:29,449 terrifying I just can't convey it it was 1192 01:01:33,849 --> 01:01:32,420 just shocking to the utmost I mean you 1193 01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:33,859 know think about how you're composed of 1194 01:01:38,229 --> 01:01:36,559 like DNA and chemicals but everything 1195 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:38,239 goes away you're not breathing you don't 1196 01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:39,890 have a body you just there's no grab it 1197 01:01:47,739 --> 01:01:44,089 just as always just in this yeah and 1198 01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:47,749 then it was weird because it just looked 1199 01:01:50,420 --> 01:01:49,609 kind of like an attenuated version of 1200 01:01:51,740 --> 01:01:50,430 the night sky 1201 01:01:53,870 --> 01:01:51,750 with a little bit of movement in it so 1202 01:01:56,900 --> 01:01:53,880 it wasn't visually very exciting yeah 1203 01:02:00,020 --> 01:01:56,910 you only see anything but I could like 1204 01:02:03,170 --> 01:02:00,030 sense this huge presences it's like one 1205 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:03,180 but many yeah it kind of were just like 1206 01:02:07,099 --> 01:02:05,730 we're here but it wasn't any force it 1207 01:02:08,329 --> 01:02:07,109 was like complete free will and I just 1208 01:02:11,630 --> 01:02:08,339 said yes and then they just started 1209 01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:11,640 teaching everything right so what did 1210 01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:19,770 they teach you well this is books oh yes 1211 01:02:24,410 --> 01:02:21,770 I'm a member of the Monroe Institute 1212 01:02:28,030 --> 01:02:24,420 professional division in fact very 1213 01:02:31,099 --> 01:02:28,040 familiar with Robert Monroe yes indeed 1214 01:02:32,299 --> 01:02:31,109 so anyway it took me years to figure out 1215 01:02:34,190 --> 01:02:32,309 but a lot of it came through what he 1216 01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,200 calls roads which is collected give you 1217 01:02:39,970 --> 01:02:36,240 a ball of stuff and you're gonna wind it 1218 01:02:43,460 --> 01:02:39,980 at your leisure write a wrote ro te 1219 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:43,470 that is a concept that Robert Monroe 1220 01:02:50,210 --> 01:02:46,770 developed and he was great with the 1221 01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:50,220 acronyms he had a lot of acronyms and 1222 01:02:57,289 --> 01:02:52,859 wrote was one of them and basically a 1223 01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:57,299 road is as you said exactly a an entire 1224 01:03:04,579 --> 01:03:00,000 teaching that is sort of given to you as 1225 01:03:06,589 --> 01:03:04,589 a ball of stuff that is going to unwind 1226 01:03:10,130 --> 01:03:06,599 in your brain when you're ready to 1227 01:03:11,630 --> 01:03:10,140 accept it yeah but so the main 1228 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:11,640 highlights that I took away and then I 1229 01:03:16,130 --> 01:03:14,010 really started working on at the you 1230 01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:16,140 know when I can it came back from that 1231 01:03:21,950 --> 01:03:19,170 experience were they give me mindfulness 1232 01:03:23,450 --> 01:03:21,960 meditation it was fair like pay 1233 01:03:24,980 --> 01:03:23,460 attention I'm sure if someone was saying 1234 01:03:27,559 --> 01:03:24,990 pay attention in that room at that point 1235 01:03:30,799 --> 01:03:27,569 but it was latched on to I kept hearing 1236 01:03:32,770 --> 01:03:30,809 it and it was like kind of glommed on to 1237 01:03:34,940 --> 01:03:32,780 the slow idea of mindfulness meditation 1238 01:03:36,799 --> 01:03:34,950 the idea that you don't need down like a 1239 01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:36,809 sitting practice but that you just need 1240 01:03:41,420 --> 01:03:38,520 to pay attention to your surroundings 1241 01:03:44,539 --> 01:03:41,430 and your awareness at any moment this is 1242 01:03:46,970 --> 01:03:44,549 going to cultivate your ability to 1243 01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:46,980 become more aware and as part of that 1244 01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,640 they also gave me a transmission in you 1245 01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:52,079 know there's different ways of kind of 1246 01:03:57,980 --> 01:03:53,400 protecting yourself from outside 1247 01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:57,990 influences and of course the Queen is to 1248 01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:01,440 be able to become completely neutral and 1249 01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:04,050 without mind right that's just wonderful 1250 01:04:10,730 --> 01:04:07,200 place to be if you can get there it's a 1251 01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:10,740 tall order but they explain that to me 1252 01:04:15,020 --> 01:04:12,450 and kind of showed me how to make that 1253 01:04:17,570 --> 01:04:15,030 energetic move and supported me in it so 1254 01:04:19,580 --> 01:04:17,580 that you know if I see these practices I 1255 01:04:21,770 --> 01:04:19,590 wouldn't be subject to you know 1256 01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:21,780 basically like they explain like you 1257 01:04:27,410 --> 01:04:25,680 know psychic parasites or vampires the 1258 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:27,420 other thing that they did and it cracks 1259 01:04:32,690 --> 01:04:30,930 me up because okay so this is in 1984 I 1260 01:04:34,580 --> 01:04:32,700 was living in Berkeley 1261 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:34,590 it happened in Berkeley California right 1262 01:04:41,450 --> 01:04:39,690 whew essential all this stuff so 1263 01:04:42,740 --> 01:04:41,460 basically what the other was like 1264 01:04:44,510 --> 01:04:42,750 through through the three main things a 1265 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:44,520 short they said you have an organ this 1266 01:04:50,420 --> 01:04:48,690 organ it's kind of like just more subtle 1267 01:04:53,150 --> 01:04:50,430 than the physical but it connects your 1268 01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:53,160 soul to your physical body and you can 1269 01:04:57,890 --> 01:04:54,960 strengthen this organ by walking now I 1270 01:04:59,480 --> 01:04:57,900 was already a big Walker but I became 1271 01:05:01,760 --> 01:04:59,490 even more so but they're like you know 1272 01:05:04,310 --> 01:05:01,770 you got to do this because you can't get 1273 01:05:05,690 --> 01:05:04,320 better unless you get in your body and 1274 01:05:07,130 --> 01:05:05,700 pay attention to all that stuff that's 1275 01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:07,140 going wrong that you don't want to have 1276 01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:08,640 to pay any attention to you but that you 1277 01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:10,050 need to know about so you can you know 1278 01:05:16,610 --> 01:05:13,440 deal with it wow that's very interesting 1279 01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:16,620 because I am a person who likes to walk 1280 01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:18,690 and would like to walk even more than I 1281 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:21,410 do do so that this is a very interesting 1282 01:05:30,410 --> 01:05:25,050 transmission to me personally I find to 1283 01:05:33,350 --> 01:05:30,420 be useful Wow yeah yeah so so you have 1284 01:05:36,020 --> 01:05:33,360 you had this out-of-body experience you 1285 01:05:41,710 --> 01:05:36,030 experienced the void you got some 1286 01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:41,720 teachings and since then you have been 1287 01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:43,920 involved I've you know seen you on 1288 01:05:48,050 --> 01:05:46,110 different websites and you're involved 1289 01:05:51,050 --> 01:05:48,060 in the UFO community as well have you 1290 01:05:54,070 --> 01:05:51,060 had a UFO sighting no the one thing I've 1291 01:05:56,140 --> 01:05:54,080 never had is flying as you know 1292 01:05:59,660 --> 01:05:56,150 unidentified object in the sky 1293 01:06:01,700 --> 01:05:59,670 unidentified light no I've had missing 1294 01:06:05,180 --> 01:06:01,710 time with entities Wow broad daylight 1295 01:06:06,380 --> 01:06:05,190 with no you know whatever around but 1296 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:06,390 I've had a taste in just about 1297 01:06:11,990 --> 01:06:08,970 everything else okay but no flying 1298 01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:12,000 saucers we have we have a few more 1299 01:06:15,140 --> 01:06:14,880 minutes to talk with you and maybe you 1300 01:06:16,550 --> 01:06:15,150 would 1301 01:06:20,900 --> 01:06:16,560 like to tell us a little bit about it 1302 01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:20,910 you're missing time yeah it's kind of 1303 01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:22,170 one of those experiences where you just 1304 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:24,720 kind of go huh that happened I don't 1305 01:06:30,350 --> 01:06:26,850 know what to say about it but I was 1306 01:06:36,610 --> 01:06:30,360 about 25 and so it was you know a few 1307 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:36,620 years after this NDE and as I say again 1308 01:06:41,540 --> 01:06:38,970 key to understanding this is that I walk 1309 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:41,550 a lot and I've been living in this place 1310 01:06:44,540 --> 01:06:43,410 where this happened or down the street 1311 01:06:48,830 --> 01:06:44,550 where it's happened for a couple years 1312 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:48,840 and so I probably walked by on this you 1313 01:06:54,650 --> 01:06:51,330 know length of Street and a few hundred 1314 01:06:56,390 --> 01:06:54,660 times by the time this happened so I go 1315 01:06:58,340 --> 01:06:56,400 out and walk every day and at the time I 1316 01:06:59,660 --> 01:06:58,350 wasn't working said I have a lot of 1317 01:07:01,640 --> 01:06:59,670 demands on my time so I just walked 1318 01:07:04,940 --> 01:07:01,650 maybe half an hour maybe two hours just 1319 01:07:08,330 --> 01:07:04,950 depending on how I felt so one day I was 1320 01:07:10,340 --> 01:07:08,340 I walked I was living in Albany and I 1321 01:07:13,460 --> 01:07:10,350 had walked up into the hills and I was 1322 01:07:20,210 --> 01:07:13,470 coming back down on Washington Street by 1323 01:07:24,050 --> 01:07:20,220 Solano between a key route and Spokane 1324 01:07:25,940 --> 01:07:24,060 okay and so in the space just walking 1325 01:07:29,090 --> 01:07:25,950 along as I said it was like by early 1326 01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:29,100 afternoon it was a clear sky within the 1327 01:07:34,700 --> 01:07:31,260 space of probably about twenty twelve 1328 01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:34,710 steps a bunch of things happen I noticed 1329 01:07:40,460 --> 01:07:37,770 that there was about half a block in 1330 01:07:42,590 --> 01:07:40,470 front of me there was like this really 1331 01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:42,600 small kind of known looking guy who was 1332 01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:44,880 very still and like right in my line of 1333 01:07:52,220 --> 01:07:47,760 sight to my left and a little behind me 1334 01:07:54,110 --> 01:07:52,230 was a lady wearing a full skirt and it's 1335 01:07:57,230 --> 01:07:54,120 like she'd come up and I hadn't noticed 1336 01:07:59,210 --> 01:07:57,240 her before and then someone said back 1337 01:08:01,540 --> 01:07:59,220 into left to me he said what time is it 1338 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:01,550 and I heard these church bells chiming 1339 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:04,890 there's a Catholic Church or a mystical 1340 01:08:11,170 --> 01:08:08,250 Church about seven blocks east of where 1341 01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:11,180 I was I was walking West so behind me 1342 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:13,770 staying alban's Episcopal Church and 1343 01:08:17,660 --> 01:08:15,930 they have these big nice chimes that go 1344 01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:17,670 all the time and they sound like it was 1345 01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:20,490 right on top of me as that even if it 1346 01:08:24,530 --> 01:08:21,930 had been going at that time would have 1347 01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:24,540 been quite a distance away cuz I like I 1348 01:08:27,299 --> 01:08:26,490 said I lived there I was walking her all 1349 01:08:28,799 --> 01:08:27,309 the time I know 1350 01:08:31,019 --> 01:08:28,809 that sound would travel it might sound 1351 01:08:31,950 --> 01:08:31,029 closer doing certain fog conditions but 1352 01:08:34,049 --> 01:08:31,960 not like this 1353 01:08:35,729 --> 01:08:34,059 okay so awesome this is happening in the 1354 01:08:37,049 --> 01:08:35,739 boom it all cuts out and none of these 1355 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:37,059 people are clearing under the sound is 1356 01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:39,250 there and I'm just I mean it's like 1357 01:08:43,620 --> 01:08:41,650 literally in the space and what walk Wow 1358 01:08:46,799 --> 01:08:43,630 I knew immediately that I've lost some 1359 01:08:53,339 --> 01:08:46,809 time that I figured well I got all my 1360 01:08:56,069 --> 01:08:53,349 favors on my toe so what can you do the 1361 01:08:58,649 --> 01:08:56,079 only thing so was one of those things 1362 01:09:00,450 --> 01:08:58,659 that I smell that was weird and I just 1363 01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:00,460 kind of filed it away but I couldn't 1364 01:09:05,879 --> 01:09:02,049 really have any idea what it meant until 1365 01:09:11,339 --> 01:09:05,889 I probably ten or twelve years later I 1366 01:09:13,169 --> 01:09:11,349 had been working in Berkeley and I agree 1367 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:13,179 very close with my boss I was very close 1368 01:09:16,829 --> 01:09:14,650 to her when she was pregnant with her 1369 01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,839 daughter she became seriously ill and I 1370 01:09:20,039 --> 01:09:18,880 was it was kind of a creepy work 1371 01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:20,049 environment so I was kinda like her 1372 01:09:22,740 --> 01:09:21,369 personal on the scene while she was like 1373 01:09:26,549 --> 01:09:22,750 in the hospital with stuff with his 1374 01:09:29,010 --> 01:09:26,559 greatest mom and so we'd be very close 1375 01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,020 and then after her child was born I went 1376 01:09:32,700 --> 01:09:31,359 to her house for some business and she 1377 01:09:35,220 --> 01:09:32,710 lived about a half block away with this 1378 01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:35,230 experience had taken place which struck 1379 01:09:40,829 --> 01:09:37,270 me because you know a lot of these fake 1380 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:40,839 entities gnomes and of course the saucer 1381 01:09:47,189 --> 01:09:43,210 occupants there's always this linkage 1382 01:09:50,849 --> 01:09:47,199 with babies aha so I don't know that's 1383 01:09:53,870 --> 01:09:50,859 the only clue I have for you I would say 1384 01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:53,880 to you that the gnome entities are 1385 01:10:00,600 --> 01:09:57,730 something that I have heard a lot about 1386 01:10:03,569 --> 01:10:00,610 before and firsthand heard you know 1387 01:10:08,879 --> 01:10:03,579 people that I have met and so forth in 1388 01:10:12,629 --> 01:10:08,889 fact Kate and I had a woman that we knew 1389 01:10:15,060 --> 01:10:12,639 together who was a member of our little 1390 01:10:17,399 --> 01:10:15,070 group that we haven't spoken much about 1391 01:10:21,060 --> 01:10:17,409 we called ourselves here four of us we 1392 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:21,070 called ourselves the saw syrettes and we 1393 01:10:26,609 --> 01:10:23,770 did a few programs around the local area 1394 01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,619 and we gathered together we would have 1395 01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:28,480 lunch together and stuff like that and 1396 01:10:35,490 --> 01:10:30,880 one woman unfortunately has passed away 1397 01:10:38,729 --> 01:10:35,500 and that woman one of her introductions 1398 01:10:41,070 --> 01:10:38,739 to this whole field of ufology and she 1399 01:10:44,610 --> 01:10:41,080 was very involved with ufology 1400 01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:44,620 had to do with her meeting this known 1401 01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:47,920 person outside of the store and it was 1402 01:10:54,180 --> 01:10:51,280 just a it sounded a lot like what you 1403 01:10:56,490 --> 01:10:54,190 were describing it was sort of time sort 1404 01:11:00,240 --> 01:10:56,500 of stopped but the this fellow 1405 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:00,250 spoke to her with your gnome he didn't 1406 01:11:03,450 --> 01:11:03,130 speak to you I I take it not that I know 1407 01:11:07,230 --> 01:11:03,460 of 1408 01:11:09,570 --> 01:11:07,240 oh if I had to guess I'd say that or 1409 01:11:12,030 --> 01:11:09,580 calculate I would say it was about 40 1410 01:11:14,970 --> 01:11:12,040 minutes missing because as I said again 1411 01:11:16,170 --> 01:11:14,980 I walked there since then I walked there 1412 01:11:18,900 --> 01:11:16,180 like probably couple thousand times 1413 01:11:25,790 --> 01:11:18,910 along that one stretch and you know how 1414 01:11:31,860 --> 01:11:29,670 about your saucer art form yes yes we 1415 01:11:34,380 --> 01:11:31,870 had a lot of fun with the whole concept 1416 01:11:38,490 --> 01:11:34,390 I thought of the name the saucer rat 1417 01:11:42,180 --> 01:11:38,500 said and one of our compatriots was a at 1418 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:42,190 the time a MUFON investigator and I 1419 01:11:45,810 --> 01:11:43,810 think she thought that I was making 1420 01:11:48,500 --> 01:11:45,820 light of the whole situation and she 1421 01:11:51,390 --> 01:11:48,510 didn't like the idea 1422 01:11:53,550 --> 01:11:51,400 she's a very nice person in a very dear 1423 01:11:55,950 --> 01:11:53,560 person and I still know her but I 1424 01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:55,960 thought it was hysterical and I like to 1425 01:12:02,190 --> 01:11:57,760 have fun you know girls just like to 1426 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:02,200 have fun isn't it I'm on your side you 1427 01:12:07,770 --> 01:12:06,130 know basically the creepy nasty part of 1428 01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:07,780 life will take care of itself so maybe 1429 01:12:12,540 --> 01:12:09,970 trying to you know work a little fun 1430 01:12:14,700 --> 01:12:12,550 well Stephanie I want to thank you so 1431 01:12:19,470 --> 01:12:14,710 much for being on shattered reality 1432 01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:19,480 today and I hope to speak with you again 1433 01:12:25,190 --> 01:12:22,690 we were very welcome to come back on and 1434 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:25,200 if you want to discuss any other 1435 01:12:31,500 --> 01:12:28,330 experiences but I want to thank you a 1436 01:12:34,140 --> 01:12:31,510 whole lot for coming on and I will be in 1437 01:12:35,670 --> 01:12:34,150 touch with you great thank you so much 1438 01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:35,680 I'll agree and I really appreciate your 1439 01:12:42,540 --> 01:12:36,490 time thank you 1440 01:12:44,940 --> 01:12:42,550 you too bye-bye bye-bye well so today 1441 01:12:47,490 --> 01:12:44,950 was a really wonderful day for us here 1442 01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:47,500 on shattered reality unfortunately we 1443 01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:50,290 could not keep miss Kate Valentine on 1444 01:12:57,720 --> 01:12:54,010 the line due to the fact that 1445 01:13:00,700 --> 01:12:57,730 minuta the fact that we had a again an 1446 01:13:05,110 --> 01:13:00,710 echo we're going to work on getting her 1447 01:13:07,330 --> 01:13:05,120 back for our next podcast so what I 1448 01:13:10,030 --> 01:13:07,340 would like to ask you to do is to please 1449 01:13:12,370 --> 01:13:10,040 check us out on YouTube like us on 1450 01:13:14,410 --> 01:13:12,380 Facebook let us know if you would like 1451 01:13:16,450 --> 01:13:14,420 to be a guest in our listeners corner 1452 01:13:19,930 --> 01:13:16,460 like the wonderful Stephanie quick just 1453 01:13:21,970 --> 01:13:19,940 was you can do so in writing that is 1454 01:13:24,130 --> 01:13:21,980 that you can send submit a written 1455 01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:24,140 report and I'll read it or Kate will 1456 01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:26,810 read it on the show or you can be 1457 01:13:33,460 --> 01:13:30,170 actually on the show verbally and Skype 1458 01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:33,470 in to us if you write in please be sure 1459 01:13:38,230 --> 01:13:36,050 to include all the pertinent details of 1460 01:13:40,930 --> 01:13:38,240 your experience will read the encounter 1461 01:13:42,910 --> 01:13:40,940 of your sighting or will read the 1462 01:13:46,510 --> 01:13:42,920 account of your sighting or encounter 1463 01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:46,520 and it could be about UFOs orbs beings 1464 01:13:52,510 --> 01:13:50,800 electronic voice phenomena hauntings 1465 01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:52,520 Bigfoots 1466 01:13:57,940 --> 01:13:55,250 we want to hear it all and please feel 1467 01:14:01,060 --> 01:13:57,950 free to comment on either of our 1468 01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:01,070 websites on youtube or on our facebook 1469 01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:09,920 page we are at WWE allottee podcast.com 1470 01:14:17,500 --> 01:14:14,530 and at shattered reality podcast 1471 01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:17,510 wordpress.com we have at the current 1472 01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:20,810 moment 68 episodes and Counting